tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-664355878657420803.post7674060032074773856..comments2024-03-26T03:05:58.787-05:00Comments on Dragons Gonna Drag: Separate Race and Class in LotFPJustin Stewarthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05885816572933013245noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-664355878657420803.post-48683293167268194762016-03-23T04:34:33.375-05:002016-03-23T04:34:33.375-05:00This was my reply to Rob on Facebook:
"Yeah, ...This was my reply to Rob on Facebook:<br />"Yeah, you raise a good point. I had world-building/genre/tone reasons for the racial class restrictions (based on the default setting of LotFP), but I have no problems balance-wise or rules-wise with allowing a player to be a Dwarf Magic-User or an Elf Cleric or whatever. I figured Dwarves get all the magic they need from their gods, and they are basically a Call of Cthulhu-style servitor race to Lawfully-aligned gods (who are still horrible eldritch abominations, but opposed to the Chaotic eldritch abominations), so they would have no association with an always-Chaotic class like the Magic-User. Likewise, soulless Elves are servitors of Chaotic gods, etc. Halflings I imagined as some kind of mutant race that was rejected by both sides and forced into eternal Neutrality. BUT...I think you're right about the railroading thing. Just because the vast majority of Dwarves are Lawful and can't be Magic-Users doesn't mean a player couldn't play one of the only Dwarves in history to switch over to the other side and be a Magic-User, or one of the only Elves to try and find/ create their soul through the use of Cleric magic, or whatever. The DM could disallow NPCs from being Halfling Magic-Users or whatever, while still allowing players to create such characters. Of course, those characters would have to be careful around their own kind, so as not to be discovered to be "race" traitors..."Justin Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885816572933013245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-664355878657420803.post-61792423287782319272016-03-23T04:33:02.853-05:002016-03-23T04:33:02.853-05:00PART 2 OF ROB'S COMMENT
"Most players wo...PART 2 OF ROB'S COMMENT<br /><br />"Most players won't try to find that perfect race/class choice. Players usually won't want to min/max a character in an attempt to break the game. (And if they do want to break your game, why are they still part of your game?) If any rule consistency issues arise with the choices, then work together to handle them in an intelligent way. It should be something that works within the IC framework of the game world. (I'll give some examples below.)<br />If you feel that the rule set you've chosen to use is so broken that you just *have* to implement restrictions, then I think it is important that any restrictions you place upon the players' options need to work with the world concept, and make sense from an IC perspective.<br />(And really, LotFP is so poorly written that I have no problem believing that some restrictions might be necessary.)<br />Some sample rationales:<br />1) Why can't dwarves be magic users? Dwarves love creating magical stuff. But maybe the reason is Dwarves are highly resistant to magic. That's why they get better saving throws vs. magic. (Maybe add a +2 to all saves involving magical effects.) However, this innate resistance means that they cannot exercise the fine control needed for spell casting. "Special snowflake" option for a PC: Allow a PC to play a dwarf that for some reason doesn't have this innate spell resistance, which allows him the ability to be a mage.<br />2) Why can't elves be clerics? They have gods, don't they? Wouldn't the elven gods give out clerical spells like the other gods? Well, maybe the elven gods lost a war against the orcish gods, and were imprisoned in a pocket dimension. With no spiritual connection to the elven gods possible, anyone who worships them gets no spells, leaving them as a plain vanilla fighter. Possible plot hook: Free the elven gods from imprisonment, restoring the cleric class for the elves.<br />3) Why do halflings have to be fighters, and not mages/clerics? ... I got nothin'. Why does this restriction even exist? Who thinks a halfling cleric would break the game?<br />Arbitrary restrictions/explanations such as "there are elven clerics, but they wouldn't leave their sacred groves, so you could have NPC elven clerics, but not PC elven clerics" or "Dwarves just don't like magic users, so no dwarf would be one" go against the very nature of a PC in a heroic fantasy setting. PCs are, by their nature, "special snowflakes". The PCs *are* that super-rare dwarven mage, or the racially evil elf who really isn't evil. PCs should be special and larger-than-life. Even in game worlds where all the PCs are normal people, they should still be remarkable and special in some way that sets them apart from the norm.<br />Arbitrary restrictions go against one of what I consider to be the main tenets of RPGs: Let the players do whatever they want. It's a DM's job to provide the players with a situation, let them decide what to do about it, then tell them what happens as a result of their actions. Restricting the players' choices, even in character creation, interferes with that process. It's railroading. For some players, it may be a big turn-off.<br />This doesn't mean that you have to be a dick about letting players do stupid things, especially if they are doing it unintentionally. Provide some guidance about the consequences during character creation, especially with newer players. but if they insist on doing sub-optimal things, or making stupid choices, then let them."Justin Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885816572933013245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-664355878657420803.post-59423022419924826062016-03-23T04:32:37.611-05:002016-03-23T04:32:37.611-05:00Rob (a player in our campaign) tried to post this ...Rob (a player in our campaign) tried to post this and said it didn't work. He told me I could post his comment if I wished, so here it is.<br />PART 1<br /><br />"For some reason, I am unable to post any kind of reply on your blog, so I post this here, instead.<br />-----<br />Re: Race/Class Combos<br />Personally, I really don't like the race-as-class thing, either. It pigeon-holes every race into being a stereotypical set of mass-produced clones. Why are humans the only race that have any form of individuality and choice?<br />Separating race and class gives the players a lot more options. I don't see it as adding any complexity to the character creation process. It's a simple choice, and results in you writing down a couple numbers on your character sheet. With your proposal that humans get racial modifiers, there really is no difference in effort.<br />In regards to the racial class restrictions, this is usually framed as a "balance" issue. Somehow people think that if they let a player mix Race A with Class Z, the resulting character will be more powerful than another player's character. Or that the result is so powerful that the mere presence of that one character will destroy the entire game. In my experience this is largely an overblown fear. Some player reads the rule book and thinks that if you combine Race A's extra dice attack with Class B's triple damage rule, then add the spell from Class C which causes your die rolls to have the highest possible result, then you can end up doing so much damage that you could kill a god with every swing of that bent fork you found alongside the road. An inexperienced or overly-literal DM lets an aggressive rules lawyer player get away with it. It ruins a carefully planned encounter, and they declare that from this point forward, Race A can't be Class B, because "zOMG! it's broken!"<br />In actual play, the situation above should never be allowed to happen. The DM should implement controls on the fly to prevent it. For example: Disallow the multiplier combination effect, allowing the player to only get the benefit of the largest multiplier. Disallow the max-die-result effect when damage multipliers are active. Declare that the insanely multiplied power tears apart the delicate structure of the spell, perverting its effects so it will raise 1s to 2s, but drop 6s to 5s. Give the target of the attack a magic-nullifying effect. (The players don't need to know that this was added on the spur of the moment.) For some drama and future stage-setting: the intensely concentrated power tears a hole in reality, casting the target through to another dimension. (Who in best serial melodrama fashion comes back to challenge the PCs at a later crucial juncture in time, and is much more powerful as a result of the experience!)"Justin Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885816572933013245noreply@blogger.com